Category talk:Hymn meters
Consulting the metrical indices for hymn tunes in sundry hymnals, there seem to be two major systems of organization. However, finding 88.88 in a hymntune index is rare; this meter is almost always categorized as "LM", and the listings for the three customary abbreviations (SM, CM, LM) and their derivatives, "with refrain", and the abbreviations for the doubled forms- SMD, CMD, LMD, all precede the numerically designated categories.
This organizations system may be worth consideration.
ns 2006 April 11 1708 CDT
There probably eventually needs to be a "search tips" section, to warn users of certain metrical pitfalls, e.g., that an 87.87.87.87 tune may fit iambic but not trochaic texts, or vice versa, or that a text with a meter 87.87.337 may have been fitted to a tune with a meter of 87.87.67. Also, capitalization matters, at least for the first character.
ns 2006 April 11 1713 CDT.
The hymn tune categories with more than nine syllables in the first line, should not be listed under "1". I know this is possible, and will work it out at some point in the near future; if someone else does it before I get to it, a brief description about how it is accomplished would be valuable.
ns 2006 April 11 1732 CDT
On the category page of each hymn metre with 10 or more syllables in the first line, say for example the category [[Category:10.10.10]], assign the category like this:
[[Category:Hymn meters|~10.10.10]]
The metre will then be grouped along with the ~ character, which sorts after 9, and is at least a slight improvement on having these metres sort under the heading of 1.
--Pml 01:03:24, 2006-04-12 (PDT)
Hmmm. Number of syllables are going to be a problem with any case where one or more lines has more than nine syllables, but a review of meters in several hymns reveals that none contains hymns with more than 15 syllables in a line. This suggests to me that the most expedient means of organizing the meters category is to use hexadecimal numbering, so that 10 is listed as a, 11 as b, 12 as c, 13 as d, 14 as e, and 15 as f. An explanatory note to the effect will be needed in the page for those who are not familiar with hexadecimal numbering, but at least there is no hexadecimal mathematic required. This will allow lines to sort properly, preclude the need to come up with five other characters besides, and have the number of syllable sort correctly.
ns 2006 April 12 1517 CDT
Upon further reflection, it occurs to me that an alternative to using hexadecimal numbers for meters with more than 9 syllables, is to place meters with ten syllables or more per line (especially if the ten or more syllables are in the first few lines) on a separate page, which is maintained by hand.
ns 2006 April 12 1944 CDT
Depending on what proportion of hymns use metres with 10 or more syllables in the first line, a hand maintained page may not be too much work. If you work out a reasonable way of doing the sorting, it may not look to bad to have the various metres organised one after (first the ones with 10 in the first line, then 11, then 12, and so on). Category talk:Voicing has notes on the method employed for sorting that list - which was a complete mess before Toby and I started on it; the next large reorganisation will be to do something useful with the searching methods for generic 2-part music, 3-part, and so on upwards.
--Pml 19:49:41, 2006-04-12 (PDT)
I'm guessing that there would be upwards from three dozen categories where the number of syllables in lines is 10 or more and which would necessitate listing on a hand-manitained page. However, in many cases, these are unicums, that is, like Stolpe's tune already up here, probably three quarters of the categories have only one or two tunes. If the categories were added as needed, maintaining the list would probably not seem too time consuming.
ns 2006 April 13 0314 CDT
OK, So I wandered over to WIKI, created an account, and spent a few minutes browsing, and think I may have discovered the answer to the question of sorting the meters in the order in which we want them to appear, and that is to define them as a list, instead of a category.
We can order the list in any way we want, and it may take a little more work to create, than letting WIKI do it automatically, but we only need one page instead of two, and 10, 11, 12, 13, and 14 will wind up where we want them, or if they don't, it will be trivial to move them as needed.
Now all we have to do is to decide what order we want the lists in, lines, or syllables....
Mjolnir 08:54, 14 April 2006 (PDT)